PROPOSAL/MOTION FOR REALNEO POLICY IMPROVEMENTS

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:11.

 

I propose the following ITEMS for the upcoming face2face REAL.COOP meeting agenda.  I support the adoption the these ITEMS because (from my experience with Realneo) I believe the adoption of the ITEMS will improve the overall quality and civic usefulness of Realneo and will heighten all user’s enjoyment of Realneo.    
 
ITEM A.     Initiating  a prohibition against anonymous users on Realneo - (with two exceptions which must be clear from the content (or from an argument submitted to Realneo admins via the contact link explaining why a poster requests/needs anonymity):
 
1st  exception  - whistle blowing on corruption, crime, discrimination,  and other issues of  public   importance.
2nd  exception  -  Nome de plume for poetry, fictional writing - which poetry or fiction does not contain ad hominem attacks on real people.
 
The reason for this change in Realneo policy is to prevent multiple personalities  from one user (like Chimera who was one of three user personalities from the same user - who went after Quest anonymously) and to prevent gratuitous ad hominem attacks (flame wars) from an anonymous user.   As Norm has pointed out, this will make Realneo more REAL and civil.
 
ITEM B.     Initiating a prohibition against posting a “teaser” post with a link out to a commercial “blog” like Examiner.com or About.com. The entire article must be posted on Realneo – without commercial spam links.
 
The reason for this change in Realneo policy is to prevent the hard work and investment of the Real.coop members (like Roldo) from being commercially parasitized by  selfish commercial “users” who are intentionally capitalizing on  Realneo’s traffic to drag viewers to another url which generates revenue not for Real.coop members, but for one individual and/or another commercial business (like Examiner.com or About.com).   Conversely, I support this change in policy because if advertizing revenue is to be generated, it should be generated by and for Real.coop – but the present Realneo policy is to remain commercial free.
 
 
ITEM C. Initiating a policy so that EVENTS will be posted  to the event calendar and not to the HOME Page – However, unique Realneo user written material which advocates for the event, explains the event, reports on the event, has personal images of the event, is a review of the event - CAN go to home page.
 
The reason for this change in Realneo policy is to prevent the dilution of “original content” by long lists of events going to the Home page and driving down other user’s unique individual effort/work.   For example, when Cleveland Engineering Society posts  (via cutting and pasting) 5 events in a row,  Roldo’s article – which is content which has much more individual sweat equity in it - is pushed out of sight.
 
 To give all users the limelight of the top of the homepage, Events need to be listed elsewhere than the Home page.
 
NOTE (I have no problem with the Engineering Society – or any other bona fide organization -  posting as many events as they want)
 
ITEM D   Initiating a policy to restrict the number of posts per day per user  to 2 - with no restriction on the number of comments any user can make (as is presently the comment policy).
 
The reason for this change in Realneo policy is to prevent the Home Page from being monopolized by any particular user.    Admin has received a number of complaints about too much content from one individual user consuming Realneo’s Home Page – causing the cooperative aspect of Realneo to be strained.
 
 
ITEM F   Initiating a policy which prohibits deletion/radical editing of content by a user as soon as another user has made a comment to the original post.
 
 
The reason for this change in Realneo policy is to prevent any user from wasting the time of readers and commentors who have made the effort to read/write a response to a post, only to find that the original post is later deleted (which also deletes their comment).
 
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Please make any comments on these ITEMS ASAP so that these ITEMS (with any changes)  can be presented as a MOTION for ADOPTION at the upcoming Realneo meeting.    If you would like to second this MOTION, please do so in a comment.  
 
Thank you,
Jeff Buster

 

 

 
 

 

 

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No restriction on number of posts....

Submitted by Norm Roulet on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:46.

I don't see the difference between a "whistle blower" and a typical realneo member, and I don't see a need or point to limit anyone to the number of posts they make to REALNEO, but I do see a point in better defining and managing what goes to the home page - that may be done through a number of methods.

Members should be encouraged to put all the content they like on realneo - in their blogs, on the events calandar, etc.... but that does not mean all a member's content should go to the home page... we each have our own unique homes here.... here is my user home... http://realneo.us/user/norm-roulet-0 ... and my blog ... http://realneo.us/blog/norm-roulet

We haven't updated the way realneo is configured to take advantage of all the new tools and enhancements available for Drupal and other social networks, so we have limited flexibility in how we configure the site, so my issue with realeno is the technology and lack of planning for its future, which I'd like to address at the next coop meeting.

Disrupt IT

Item A real-name user's and whistleblowers

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 13:10.

 

Norm, My understanding of a  whistle blower is an individual who faces possible reprisal - so anonymity is their defense against being fired, etc. A whistle blower is not a typical Realneo user – rather a whistleblower is someone who has information about, say,  their public employer or private employer and if their name is associated with the release of information, then they will be retaliated against and they will no longer have access to the info.   
 
I believe people in that posture should be able to post anonymously for the public benefit.
 
I agree that the homepage monopoly issue/ quantity of postings  could be controlled through software, but until Realneo has the funds and/or talent to put that software in place, I believe Realneo needs another method (policy) to manage the issue.  Clearly, everyone should be able to post as much or as little as they want - but without editors/or software controlling what goes to the home page - I don't see any other presently available means of managing the issue.    best, jeffb

 

I'm a whistleblower and I have suffered for it...

Submitted by Norm Roulet on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 15:23.

I still believe the best way to protect oneself and the community from harm is to make everything open and honest.... I don't trust annonymous whistleblowers on public sites and suggest they contact the proper authorities... I know the FBI is interested in unreal NEO.

It is very easy to post something to realneo and not have it hit the home page... we just change the settings so that nothing goes to the home page unless it is promoted, and we teach people how to promote their content... and then see if anyone abuses that arrangement.

If this is just about one or two posters posting too much, they should just be contacted directly... as we grow, we will need to reconfigure the technology.

As for the technology, as you know, I made a proposal in to the county in December to fund development of core social computing technologies here, that would benefit realneo, but you have not personally been supportive. I am still structuring how such an initiative may work, and real coop members may determine if realneo participates and how... if we ever can set in place some ways for real coop to make decisions on behalf of all members. That is the core issue I have with realneo and real coop going forward, and we should plan to discuss that when we meet.

Disrupt IT

(No subject)

Submitted by None on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 15:15.

Item B

Submitted by lmcshane on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:46.

  Jeff--You are aware that the content Roldo publishes at REALNEO is concurrently published at CoolCleveland and the Cleveland Leader.   I don't think your correlation holds water.
 

Item B - prohibiting "teaser" posts

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:58.

Laura, Your example of Roldo posting to CC and to the Leader is supportive of the policy which is proposed for Realneo.   Roldo puts his entire article on each of the various sites to which he posts.   Roldo does not use a teaser on Realneo to drag traffic to another site.  

Specifically Laura, what is the problem with asking for the entire article to be posted to Realneo? It is not Censorship, it is not editing.   Please fully explain your concern.   best, jeffb

  What about?  

Submitted by None on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 15:09.

 

What about?

 

On Web - libel/slander assessed to author

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 09:12.

 

Hello Oengus,   The Communications Decency Act, and subsequent federal amendments to the legislation, provide certain immunity against libel and slander to social network sites like Realneo - Reputation Management discusses the reasons for immunity and limits to immunity under the federal law.
While the hosts of a blog have certain immunity, a court can order the host or ISP to provide identifying material for an individual who posts material which is libelous or slanderous.   
The individual can then be sued.   
To date, Realneo has not had any issues that I am aware of with libel or slander claims.
Best, jeffb

 

un verified

Submitted by None on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 17:04.

Jeff, Then if a person posts ‘anonymously’ say as in a whistles blower; they should make sure they are using an anonymous or public computer. A computer that would not lead back to them. A person that post from a PC that is using an IP that is traceable is not completely anonymous. The sites liability is to provide the IP address if they have the capability and are requested by a court order. That’s conjecture on my part as I am not an attorney. But keep in mind individuals can act in the full capacity of an attorney in their own interest.

Point is that being anonymous is a fallacy unless you really are covering yourself. Being protected by law also can mean going to court to prove that sometimes. Which can be a real pain, and costly too. Unwise to go to court without legal council and people take people to court on technicalities all the time.

I am attempting to be self actuated and struggling with that. I hate when that happens….

Posting totally anonymously takes work

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 18:54.
Hello Oengus,
Yes, you are right – to be truly anon you have to really concentrate on "covering yourself".  
Just going to the library - in the libraries I know - won't provide cover.   In the   libraries I use you need to log in with your library id which is connected to a residential address and other info.  So any posts off of a library computer will be traceable unless you have gotten your library card without real connections.
Every computer has an ID which goes out with every email and post.   I assume that the computer id can be changed (who knows how this is done?), just as the ids on a stolen car can be changed (it is a lot of work with cars now-a-days because the SN is put into the dash, the frame, and elsewhere on every vehicle).
Even sentence structure through Google makes it easy to break through anonymity.
For example, I think you, Oengus, are M with a second name which starts with a letter that has equilateral geometry.  I found this out by putting certain sentence structures from your posts into Google and seeing what came back.
So, it seems to me that the best way to be anonymous is to create other personas around the world with the same name.
Kinda goes against the idea that everyone is unique, but inside we all know we are unique.  And I believe that every human has the right to be anonymous - until they attack - then identity is of Darwinian importance.
 
If a whistle blower really wants to keep their ID secret, they would be best off to contact someone else they trust and have that other person post the whistle blowing material.  I have done this for others in the past, and am always willing to consider doing it again for the public good. 

Cool, Google my last name

Submitted by None on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 20:06.

Cool, Google my last name and 'Bedouin' and see what comes up.

I'm not attacking anymore....not that I ever really did.

Web personas never match real personas.

Slander an liable are not valid, people do not own the perceptions other’s have of them. If they do not own the perceptions then it is not theirs to be damaged.

 

 

 

 

can we

Submitted by noner on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 15:17.

please just go out for a beer?

Item B Gatekeeping

Submitted by lmcshane on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 17:00.

  I think that your idea is too draconian and would limit our use of active links at this site.

It's not parasitism, Jeff--its called social/viral marketing and there is nothing wrong with it, unless the links are dishonest and don't really connect to the billed link i.e.  creating an active link for baby seals and really linking to porn. 

I think you are imposing your own values on content that should be up to the REALNEO visitor to decide for themselves.  You say:

The reason for this change in Realneo policy is to prevent the hard work and investment of the Real.coop members (like Roldo) from being commercially parasitized by  selfish commercial “users” who are intentionally capitalizing on  Realneo’s traffic to drag viewers to another url which generates revenue not for Real.coop members, but for one individual and/or another commercial business (like Examiner.com or About.com).   Conversely, I support this change in policy because if advertizing revenue is to be generated, it should be generated by and for Real.coop – but the present Realneo policy is to remain commercial free.
 
First of all--your comment above imposes a ranking and value judgement on the content posted here.  How do you know that any of those in non-compliance with your proposed policy (namely Tricia's posts) are not getting hits based on the content's own merit?
 
Also, no offense to Roldo, but I think you insult the number of people who post here.  The OPEN part of the REALNEO mission statement is why people come back to this site more than once.  You will never know who or what to find here.  Don't impose unnecessary limits.

 

Levels of Spam Item B

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 20:08.

"It's called social/viral marketing" (lmcshane qoute from comment)

OK, now we are making some progress....finally you are acknowledging that Chaves' posts and Sustaino's posts are marketing - viral "social" MARKETING!

Many- including me - call this marketing junk SPAM.  If you want to give it a fancier name, it doesn't change the fact that the parasitic users are attempting to MARKET via Realneo.

But Realneo has always had a no-commercial ads policy.  So, Laura, are you suggesting that Realneo should change its long held no-ad policy and allow parasitic users to conduct "viral social MARKETING" by posting a teaser to REalneo and linking out to their spam site?

If "open" to you means Realneo needs to allow spam, then we are not going to find common ground on this issue. 

And as to "ranking" material which is posted to Realneo, I plead GUILTY.   I am GUILTY of ranking Roldo's, or Susan's, or Norm's, or your content over Chave's BULLFROG MOSquito Control commercial pumping spam. 

If you see all content posted to Realneo as the same - then this is another area where we will not find common ground.

One thing I learned in high school biology: hosting parasites is  not healthy. 

By the way, I tried Bullfrog Mosquito Control, and the bottle fits my manly hand with eaze.  I reccomment you try it when you barbeque this June.   You can buy Bullfrog HERE for $4.95 for a 22 gallon container.   Don't judge me...

 

 

 

 

 

 

  (Learn more by clicking

Submitted by None on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 22:45.

 

(Learn more by clicking right here!)

Parasitism

Submitted by lmcshane on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 08:20.

  If you want to talk about parasitism, let's talk about this....
 Really--why not save your outrage for some large scale con artists, Jeff (and any one else who happens to agree with Jeff's salvo).

Jeff, you are worked up about one creative woman, running a home-based business in a shitty economy, while Rokakis and Frangos are pulling a fast one on all of us, especially those of us living in the City of Cleveland.  Your sense of outrage is really out of kilter.

And, I've got news for you--advertising is part of LIFE.  It's the attitude you decide to have when you wake up in the morning.  It's what you choose to believe and what you decide is important in life. 

This is a power issue and you can not decide what people decide and then go after every idea that doesn't conform with your vision (you say "now, we've made some progress," why, because I should think like you?!).  You need to selectively ignore some things in life. 

Personally--I think you don't see the forest, because you have focused on one tree.

(Also--in reference to your high school biology...I took Parasitism at King's College in London...it's not so simplistic Mr. B :)

Orchards are made of Trees

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:55.

Hello Laura, At one point I was involved with orchard agriculture.  

 
Acres and acres of trees. Each acre had about a 100 trees.   Looking at all the trees at once didn’t make any sense. In order to prune the trees, irrigate the trees, pick the trees, you had to look at each tree individually. I got to know many of the trees by heart. 
 
Advertizing does not have to be part of your life. You can take action to avoid advertizing.  For example: don’t watch TV, block spammers.
 
Advertizing is generally crude and vulgar.  I make an effort to keep crudeness and vulgarity out of my life so my “hard drive” head doesn’t fill up with spam.
 
PS: how do you know it’s a woman? Are there any beneficial parasites?
 
Try Bullfrog Mosquito Control in the ergo metric manipulative recycled DDT bottle. $4.95 while supplies last. Smells good too. Full Quart Free Gift
 
 

 

  

 

Power Issue...

Submitted by ANGELnWard14 on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:04.

For lmcshane,

I agree with you 100%....Thank you for keeping it REAL!!!! It's time to hold bring those huge con artists to their knees....time to rattle their cages...and time to share with the public the REAL truth about their shameful, underhanded, abusive, and deceitful practices that enable and sustain corruption in NEO....It's high tide time... Keep up your efforts! Some of us do appreciate your work!!! Thank you for speaking up for the best interests of the community at large!!!

ANGELnWard14

angelnward14 has civic vision

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 14:18.

Angel, just letting you know that I have read your comments on the PD blogs,  (On Henry Gomez's, etc.) and I compliment you for your healthy civic vision - and well written too.  Keep it up! best, jeffb

RED capes

Submitted by lmcshane on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 14:13.

  Angel, thanks for the morale support. I am glad that this forum allows us to find each other.  
 

Thank you all for your kind words.

Submitted by ANGELnWard14 on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 21:09.

Thank you all for your words. It's nice to finally- NOT feel so alone regarding my civic thoughts... It's nice to know that I am not the only one who recognizes so many things of this nature....

Keep on keeping on....my salute to everyone who goes out on a limb for our community's best interests!